In contrast to receiving a mark for survival Revelation 9:4 says those who "... have the seal of God on their foreheads" receive no harm from the locusts which have the authority of scorpions. Revelation 22:3-4 says there will be those who will see the face of God (or is it that of the Lamb, or is it of both) and that such ones will have the name of God (or is it that of the Lamb, or is it of both) on their foreheads in the holy city (New Jerusalem) after the 1,000 years of rule (during the abyss of Satan) have ended. Revelation 21:27 (1984 NWT) indicates that those with the holy name on their foreheads are those who names are "written in the Lamb's scroll of life" and Revelation 22:5 (1984 NWT) says "they will rule as kings forever and ever." In contrast Revelation 13:15-18, 16:2, and and 19:20 says that the ones who worship the beast and the image of the beast will have the mark of the beast on their forehead or on their right hand.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
-
22
Saving "mark" on forehead: A CROSS?
by Terry inezekiel 9:4.
“go throughout the city of jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”
in the script used during old testament times it was either in x shape or a + shape.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
-
35
Refuting the Alleged Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection
by truth_b_known inin the past few months there have been a few debates on this site over alleged evidence of the resurrection of jesus.
this can be a hot topic as most would agree that without the resurrection of jesus there would be no christianity.
i am not so sure of that, but i am more sure that dr. gary habermas' minimal facts approach to the resurrection has no evidentiary basis.. here is a 22 minute video on the topic.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Yesterday I checked out from the library two books by Jacobovici, namely The Jesus Discovery and The Lost Gospel. The Lost Gospel makes some wild claims and yet to some extent they seem plausible.
-
4
2001translation.com Website?
by lynnmelo inhi, again, folks (i've posted 2 times today).
my sister (who is also studying with the jw's) found this website.
it says it isn't affiliated with any specific religion, but she said that many of the explanations are right in line with the jw's take on things.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Regarding Romans 10:13 see also https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-unreliable where it says it thinks that Joel 2:32 (which is quoted in Romans 10:13) in Hebrew originally said "Then, all that call on the name of the Lord will be saved, said Jehovah", instead of saying "Jehovah (יהוה)" in place of Lord. The reasons it gives for such are impressive.
-
46
Books I read when I deprogrammed
by OrphanCrow inblondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.
canadian exjws from calagary.
an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
I appreciate the post post Crazyguy made 6 years ago (which on page 1 of this forum topic) in reference to https://2001translation.org/ . Of that website I find the following pages very interesting: https://2001translation.org/about/faq , https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-in-new-testament , and https://2001translation.org/about/christian-books-languages .
-
4
2001translation.com Website?
by lynnmelo inhi, again, folks (i've posted 2 times today).
my sister (who is also studying with the jw's) found this website.
it says it isn't affiliated with any specific religion, but she said that many of the explanations are right in line with the jw's take on things.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Despite what Narkissos posted 16 years ago I notice the following.
Currently https://2001translation.org/ they refer to the OT as "Jewish Era" instead of as "Hebrew Scriptures". The https://2001translation.org/about/faq says "Also, we found the Greek Septuagint text to be possibly more reliable than the Hebrew Masoretic text used by most Bibles. Yet, there are very few English translations of the Greek Septuagint. This translation provides a public service by providing a modern translation from the Greek. Further, much of the Christian Era books may have been originally written in Aramaic (or were at least very early translations). This is important because the Aramaic text fixes some problems and even solves some mysteries, yet most Bibles pay little attention to it."
https://2001translation.org/read/jeremiah says "Septuagint text: This book may read differently to what you’ll see in other Bibles. Why? We use the much older Greek Septuagint manuscripts which we believe are more authentic. These were the manuscripts used by many 1st-century Christians, including the Apostles. Our translation is created by volunteers, and we are always correcting and refining the text. Learn what [brackets] and other insertions mean."
https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-in-new-testament mentions every place where the translation uses Jehovah, and it says their basis for each usage, and it does not mention Romans 10:13 as being a place where the name Jehovah is used. At https://2001translation.org/read/romans in Romans 10:13 it says "Therefore, everyone that calls on the name of the Lord will be saved!"
https://2001translation.org/about/divine-name-in-new-testament makes a very strong argument for their use of the name Jehovah in the NT. More than 12 years I was wondering if there could be a basis for use of the name Jehovah in the NT due to the Jehovah references mentioned in a section of the Darby translation of the the Holy Scriptures, which mentioned that in many places the NT lacks the definite article proceeding the Greek word for Lord - especially in quotes of the OT where the Greek Septuagint substitutes the Kyrios for YHWH. Likewise I had learned that the Aramaic NT often uses Maryah (notice that word includes "yah" and thus appears to mean "Lord Yah").
-
45
Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??
by Witness 007 inso imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.
true pioneer!
👍 love ❤️ .
-
-
Disillusioned JW
I picked up the from the library the book by Franz called Crisis of Conscience (Fourth edition) and I am finding it interesting. In reading it I get a very strong conviction that Raymond is sincere in his book. Yesterday I noticed that a branch library of my county's library system has Penton's book called Apocalypse Delayed and thus I placed a hold on it.
From my branch of the county library I checked out Jesus Before The Gospels (by Bart D. Ehrman) yesterday., after I saw a copy of it yesterday at the book sale held in the library. I also saw the following books at the sale. The Jesus Papers: Exposing the Greatest Cover-Up in History (by Michael Baigent) [a placed a hold on a copy of it from the library while I consider buying the one which is at the sale], two editions of Darwin's Origin of the Species book (one with a Foreword or Introduction by Julian Huxley), some other books on evolution, two copies of Enlightenment Now: The Case for Reason, Science, Humanism, and Progress (by Steven Pinker), and some other books of interest.
-
45
Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??
by Witness 007 inso imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.
true pioneer!
👍 love ❤️ .
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Regarding Raymond and works published by Raymond's "publishing concern, Commentary Press" https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/ says the following. "Because his efforts were made for those seeking spiritual truth and freedom, we offer these works freely to anyone looking to benefit from those unique insights. Further, we encourage you to share this archive with others." https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/books-in-english/ has free PDF downloads of Commentary Press editions of the following books:
- Crisis of Conscience (Fourth edition, Revised and Updated – May, 2004) by Raymond Franz (with topical and Scriptural indexes), 420 pages
- In Search of Christian Freedom (Second edition, Revised and Updated – 2007) by Raymond Franz, 736 pages
- The Sign of the Last Days – When? [English] (First edition, 1987) by Carl Olof Jonsson & Wolfgang Herbst, [Edited by Raymond Franz], 390 pages.
The above downloads seem to be with permission by the new publisher, for in contrast in regards to The Gentile Times Reconsidered [English] (Fourth edition, Revised and Expanded – 2004) by Carl Olof Jonsson, 390 pages, it says the following. "(No longer available due to request from new publisher. Available for purchase here)".
Sadly when it came the topic of evolution Commentary Press displayed the same negative type of views as did the WT. See https://friendsofraymondfranz.com/why-popular-reasons-for-believing-evolution-are-wrong/ . Though that essay (which is a Book review of Icons of Evolution by Jonathan Wells, Ph.D.) makes a number of true factual statements which are critical of some ideas of evidence of evolution, it doesn't state any of the overwhelming evidence that strongly support evolution as being true.
https://ad1914.com/jw-experience-of-raymond-franz/ says the following.
'In an online tribute to Raymond Franz, CommentaryPress.com states:
“As Raymond learned the inner workings of the Governing Body, he became deeply concerned that the focus was more on preserving the image of the Organization rather than on sound Biblically based decisions. His disappointment lead to his sharing with Cynthia what he was troubled with concerning the Governing Body. Cynthia agreed with Raymond and together the two of them decided to leave the world headquarters in 1980.” '
https://ad1914.com/personal-experience-carl-olof-jonsson/ says the following.
'Anyone who has studied Watchtower literature knows that they are experts at misrepresenting scholars. The quoting of scholars in this case is no exception. Let me share an example. In the Watchtower publication, “Let your kingdom come,” p. 187 they try to present the picture that Babylonian history might be in error, and that yet undiscovered material could drastically alter the chronology:
“Professor Edward F. Cambell, Jr., introduced a chart, which included Neo-Babylonian chronology, with the caution: ‘It goes without saying that these lists are provisional. The more one studies the intricacies of the chronological problems in the ancient Near East, the less he is inclined to think of any presentation as final. For this reason, the term “circa” [about] could be used even more liberally than it is.'”
As Jonnson points out, the Watchtower did not mention that the chart referred to “covers the chronologies of Egypt, Palestine, Syria, Asia Minor, Assyria and Babylon from c. 3800 to the death of Alexander the Great in 323 B.C., and although the term “circa” is placed before many of the reigns given in the lists for this long period, no circas are placed before any of the reigns given for the kings of the Neo-Babylonian period!” (p. 292)
So much for doubting the accuracy of the Neo-Babylonian sources!'
-
35
No beards...even Jesus! Strange Watchower rule for brothers!
by Witness 007 inwatchtower 1954 p.511 "why do watchtower publications now show jesus with short hair and no beard?
because he is shown that way in older representations of him that are older then the traditional effeminate looking pictures.".
watchtower 1968 p.286 "bible evidence and a recent review shows that jesus did have a beard..." charles russell style of beard was popular at bethel...till rutherford took over.
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Adding to the Watchtower's business model approach, while Rutherford was president the congregations of the WT were referred as "companies".
-
45
Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??
by Witness 007 inso imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.
true pioneer!
👍 love ❤️ .
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Correction: In my earlier post where I say "interesting.It " that accidently became a link. It should not have been a link. Instead I intended to write "interesting. It".
Further information: From what I read about In search of Christian Freedom, that book seems to me that it would be very interesting to read.
-
45
Owe Raymond Franz my life anyone else??
by Witness 007 inso imagine a governining body member faithful slave who's uncle wrote the new world translalation bible and predicted 1975 would be armagedon writes a book in 1980 that changed my whole life...thank you raymond franz for setting me and my wife free love this man forever.
true pioneer!
👍 love ❤️ .
-
-
Disillusioned JW
Correction/Update: I was in error when I said "In a quick browse of the https://nulifepress.com/ web site I didn't find any books by Raymond Franz mentioned." Instead the website, which I had incorrectly thought was the right website, was https://nlpress.com/ ; that one is completely different. The https://nulifepress.com/ has trouble loading - it gets timed out when the browser tries to load the page - and I thus wonder if NuLife Press is no longer in business. Sometimes https://nulifepress.com/ redirects to https://nulifepress.net/ and that latter page says "This Website is presently Under Construction." That pages (ending in .net) claims to be owned by the other NuLife Press (the one ending in .com) since the bottom of its page says "Copyright © 2020 nulifepress.com." I suspect that NuLife Press currently is not publishing any books.